SO calling them DAYTIME lights aint gonna cut it ??? .. maybe if I put labels on them and in the user book ..

Plums,-

One can call them front fogs lights, anything really, even torches or lighters or candels!

But enforcement of a lamp function by HWP et al, is easily determined by a couple of factors;

* The subject lamps "E marked Compliance-Coding"; - this is stamped onto the lens typically, for a 'front fog light' we see the letter "B" on the glass or plastic lens (for halogen technology units). Example; "02B".

* Or, via the 'ISO switch symbol', which for front or rear fog lights are unique. You can see the symbols at this Singapore government website on the matter:-
ask.lta.gov.sg/home/lta/listings.asp?pro...tegory=45052#2289838


Front fogs in halogen trim are 12v/55watts and can be either "white-optic" or "selective yellow" in colour. These are not DRL's or cornering lamps.

Use of front and rear fog lights *throughout the world* is harmonised, this uniformity derives from the "UN Convention on Road Traffic, Road Signs & Signals".

A Cornering Lamp is 12v/21watts. (Has a torch-like beam of light that shines diagonally left or right,- whichever way the indicator is used, and only when the low-beam or high-beams are on.

A DRL or Daytime Running Lamp, like a cornering lamp,- is a 12v/21watt bulbed light. An effect not unlike a reverse light - but at the front! Current DRL's also use white-optic LED technology, and like bulbed counterparts, are up to 9000 candelas!

Newer HSV units I understand have DELETED front fog lamps, but do have LED DRL's instead with seperate round 'parker'. Many EU makes on the other hand have both lamp types.

DRL's are mandatory on new cars in EU after 2011. (So is the warning triangle and safety vests in cars).

The PT Cruiser, indeed ALL recent Chrysler vehicles in AUS also have, typically, a single rear fog light.

See more about the rear fog subject here:-www.boostcruising.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=450922

hey that is awesome ... great to get accurate info (Iwas being a littl tongue in cheek / silly but it is a serious matter as there are some real BAD set lights out there that do need to be OFF when driving in no fog .... I'll have to get my Phantom to read this he understand such things heaps better .. if I can a change the front lower lights to a 12v/21watt globe instead of the 12vt/55 that are FOGS would that make it legal?? OR would another type of glass with correct coding need to be fitted as well .. the sign that got me thining of this is ... be safe use daytime lights .. they are are also now on the road sides heading away from Melb ... I'll see if I can get a pic on way home .. only if it is sfe to pull over .... I will just drive with the head ligths on till we can get clarification not fogs !! ... I have a vest & triangle in Pt already thanks to a good friend ...

Plums & Roses II wrote:
If I can a change the front lower lights to a 12v/21watt globe instead of the 12v/55w that are FOGS would that make it legal?? OR would another type of glass with correct coding need to be fitted as well?
Changing a complianced front fog lamps 12/55w to a lower wattage 12/21w bulb will not make the lamp a true DRL;, primarily because

- The beam pattern for a front fog light is different from that of a complianced DRL, (Similarly, DRL's and Cornering lamps have the same wattage, BUT- the beams of these two lamp functions, and how they perform and are seen by all traffic, are different from each other); and

- We have the difficulty of the different physical bulb types, a halogen front fog lamp might be an H3 or H1 bulb, whilst a 21watt bulb might be a 'bayonet' or wedge variety. Each is not interchangeable.

- The 'lights on in daytime' ad one see's advertised on occasion by authority, is aimed at all traffic NOT equipped with complianced DRL's. It is intended that we use *only* the headlights low-beam. The ad you see is *pointless* for a DRL equipped car,- because the DRL's will be ON regardless once the ignitions is switched on.

A car equipped with complianced DRL will will automatically switch OFF the DRL function once you switch on the regular low or high-beam headlights, OR switch on the parkers and front fog lights, or combination thereof.

A DRL activates once the ignition is switched on, it doesn't activate the taillamps or front parkers either. A fully independent function.

A DRL, used alone, does not mean folk can continue driving in say "hazardous weather conditions causing reduced visibility", because road law (ARR 215) effectively requires us to have either low-beam headlights on, or front fog on (if fitted) under such weather conditions. And rem the DRL's alone do not activate taillights.


.. the sign that got me thining of this is ... be safe use daytime lights .. they are are also now on the road sides heading away from Melb ... I'll see if I can get a pic on way home .. only if it is safe to pull over
The state road agencies have often had such campaigns, here in NSW particularly through the Blue Mountains for example, but rem we mean low-beam headlights, not front fogs and/or parkers.

It, the advertising, might hint that we intend to adopt a mandatory DRL function on new-maket vehicles someday. Atm the Australian Motor Vehicle Certification Board have just finished a meeting in Canberra, this DRL function might have been on the discussion agenda, I know that we are looking at a mandatory rear fog lamp function (up from being 'optional') at this meeting. It may be we'll simply study DRL implementation only; at UN level (where we derive out vehicle construction regulations - UNECE), DRL's are optional for countries to adopt, the EU mandates them from 2011 on all new vehicles in that market!

.... I will just drive with the head ligths on till we can get clarification not fogs !!
That IS what is intended. Rem, a complianced front fog has unique markings on the lens vis "02B" or "B"; this tells enforcers what the lamp is designed for.

An ALTERNATIVE is to fit a set of complianced DRL's, such as these from Hella:-
www.hella.com/produktion/HellaAU/WebSite...ghting/DRLs/DRLs.jsp

See also Brown & Watson (the Narva people) etc. You have to decide on the ugly factor - will these physical designs please the eye! Otherwise, only use low-beam headlights till the day arrives that you buy a new car that bears standard DRL's.

Devil's advocate; the counter-argument against DRL's:-
www.lightsout.org
See also links to other anti-DRL sites.


I have a vest & triangle in Pt already thanks to a good friend ...
That is terrific, the safety vests to Euro or AUS spec can be had for as little as $4.50 (Hot Dollar). I do hope the warning triangle is to Euro/UN spec as well - "UNECE 27R" for performance and stability.

The two items are now mandatory to have in the car in Europe, and in some places the vest *must* be worn before exiting the vehicle when attending a breakdown or other persons car crash! The triangle item was recently adopted by India and China also.

We'll get them here.
www.nbntv.com.au/index.php/2009/07/14/ca...ved-roadside-safety/

solutions.3m.co.uk/wps/portal/3M/en_GB/S...bl/HiVis_Importance/

www2.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr/vos-infos/...008/CP_14-04-08.html

Regards.

OMG a LOT to take in ... VERY interesting !! thankyou ... I will check out the triangle & vest .. they are a MOPAR KIT so I suppose from the USA ... see if there are any numbers on them ... ASA and ADR here are often different .. will be intresting to see if they are compliant .. think (know) I had better leave the LIGHTS OEM & as IS and use the lights as U have described for the purpose as designed .. I didn't think it would be that easy !!! .. talking to Phantom he has pointed out when we first started driving to Gippsland we had a few mornings of Heavy FOG but the last 2 years NONE .. both our cars have FOG lights as they came STD handy when needed but not often Lately .. & must admit I have noted a few BADLY designed / used lights since this topic came up.. & can understand why some should get told to turn the right lights on or turm them off ... two JAP utes in particular on way home tonight were GLARING .. even in the dark & rain ... one behind me and the other coming towards me ... I was NOT happy .. TIS like using the RIGHT tools for the job or utensils in the kitchen !! :)I did get that pic . after tonights Aweful drive home .. I LIKE the reminders of drivers staying alert & safe ... micro sleeps and yawns .. yeap U have my attention & support ! !

I was seriously NOT driving .. I was stationary .... conditions at that point were pretty good .. got a LOT worse ... I reduced speed a LOT in SEVERAL places ... BUT WE R safe back ... topic .. correct use of lights I think !!